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puzl
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Post by puzl » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:02 am

I don't have a problem with the respawn timers, they are tiny compared to e.g. BF1942, ET:QW. Or maybe i've just been lucky to die near the end of the timer.
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Admirable
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Post by Admirable » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:14 am

In the Dev Commentary they point out that timers increase if you are losing to encourage wins.
So basically... die less! :D
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LastBreath
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Post by LastBreath » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:49 pm

Admirable wrote:
LastBreath wrote:Do we have to buy it? If not where can i dload it?


You need to pre-order Orange Box through Steam to get in the TF2 Beta.


A.k.a buy?
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MaD SrsH
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Post by MaD SrsH » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:09 pm

Yes, buy.
I'm pretty easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me.

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Post by pygmy.shrew » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:49 pm

I'm not saying remove the respawn timers completely, but TF2 already has the following things built in to punish the team dying...

People dying are less likely to get critical hits on their opponents, and as such will deal less damage.
If you're dying then that is less people on the field. By it's very nature of dying you're at a disadvantage. Just see NS with its respawn queues, teams take advantage when they've consigned the enemy to the benches because they have time to breathe, advance and dominate. This is especially important on maps such as (I think) dustbowl and hydro where being pushed back as the attacking team costs valuable time and being pushed back as a defensive team costs you your capture points.
The dying (and losing) team starts further and further from their intended goal in maps like Granary, and those dying lots have to push through no man's land, and can't go right to the back to capture.

You don't need to remove the timer completely. but given sometimes death has to be a likely outcome (clearing sticky bombs, scouting turrets, etc) it's harsh to penalise people in these situations.

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Rebellion
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Post by Rebellion » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:54 pm

XenoMorF wrote:i dont like waiting to spawn, its so god damn boring. Remove it to put it to 5 seconds

You hate TF2 with a passion, why should people listen to Mr.Hater? ;/
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LoneShark
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Post by LoneShark » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:19 am

Rebellion wrote:
XenoMorF wrote:i dont like waiting to spawn, its so god damn boring. Remove it to put it to 5 seconds

You hate TF2 with a passion, why should people listen to Mr.Hater? ;/


Because he was good at a game that a lot of people played 5+ years ago, and that noone play nowadays. I would be pissed off too!

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scotteh
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Post by scotteh » Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:36 am

he might tell you he was good, but he wasnt.. he really wasnt.. ;p
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Post by jp^ » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:27 am

i gotta say- i'm disappointed.

by trying to make it more newbie friendly they've removed things like bhop and grenades (conc jumping) but they've not replaced it with anything else. i think this is a pitfall that will be unavoidable for NS2. every unit has been culled to one play style. e.g. tfc medics could heal on defense or play offense as flag cappers. they could use their shotgun, grenades, concs and medpacks against the enemy to get all kinds of different frags. in FF they've only realistically got their shotgun to frag with.

basically all the classes have become as dull as the HWguy.

and the spy is bad, heck even unplayable in attack vs defense maps. it seems his best option is to disguise as an enemy, cloak to let an enemy go past him, then uncloak, follow him and backstab him. but enemeis can see through your cloak more often than not, and when they hear footsteps behind them and a crazed engi following them they know it's a spy. yea, you can mix things up and play smarter, but for all that effort you're better off just going soldier (who, by the way, has ridculously slow rockets that are easily avoided. unless they pull out their shotgun, i can easily frag soldiers as a scout) and fragging the SGs from range.
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viper
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Post by viper » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:54 am

are you talking about FF or TF2?

jp^
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Post by jp^ » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:50 am

jp^ wrote:i gotta say- i'm disappointed.

by trying to make it more newbie friendly they've removed things like bhop and grenades (conc jumping) but they've not replaced it with anything else. i think this is a pitfall that will be unavoidable for NS2. every unit has been culled to one play style. e.g. tfc medics could heal on defense or play offense as flag cappers. they could use their shotgun, grenades, concs and medpacks against the enemy to get all kinds of different frags. in TF2 they've only realistically got their nailgun to frag with.

basically all the classes have become as dull as the HWguy.

and the spy is bad, heck even unplayable in attack vs defense maps. it seems his best option is to disguise as an enemy, cloak to let an enemy go past him, then uncloak, follow him and backstab him. but enemeis can see through your cloak more often than not, and when they hear footsteps behind them and a crazed engi following them they know it's a spy. yea, you can mix things up and play smarter, but for all that effort you're better off just going soldier (who, by the way, has ridculously slow rockets that are easily avoided. unless they pull out their shotgun, i can easily frag soldiers as a scout) and fragging the SGs from range.
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jp^
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Post by jp^ » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:51 am

cant seem to edit posts here and accidently quoted instead of edited D:

i meant TF2
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Post by Vlad » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:54 am

jp^ wrote:cant seem to edit posts here and accidently quoted instead of edited D:

i meant TF2


try now ;)

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MaD SrsH
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Post by MaD SrsH » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:28 am

It's a fun game and that's all that matters to me. Even more fun when you play with smart players. Just this morning I did 5 backstabs as a Spy in 5 sec, so if you play it right it can be very powerful class... Well... Any class can be powerful if you play em right. So it's kinda easy to get in to, but skillful and smart player will always come on top.
I'm pretty easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me.

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scotteh
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Post by scotteh » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:26 pm

you mentioned how versatile a medic was in TFC, and a skilled medic in TFC would waste anything, sentrys, HW, Soldiers, absolutley anything. and then they were fast, and could conc jump, they were uber....

very rarely saw them playing a medics role though and healing teammates....

in TF2 as people have mentioned there is a big focus on each class has its own unique role. some can be quite flexible and allow you to attack aswell as defend, but the majority have an advantage when placed in their own bracket. for example:

the soldier, slower rockets and decreased hit points means the solly isnt that great at defending anymore, a scout will run rings arround you quite literally and waste you. on the offense though, they are great for taking out HWguys, and sentry guns, and provide a nice bit of energy to the front line and because there are no concs, or grenades, and the maps have been designed to allow some areas only to be accessable through rocket/pipe/double jumping which only serves as an advantage on the attack.


in TFC a team could pretty much get away with (Defense) engi + a few sollies. (Offense) Medics + possibility of a spy. though saying that in TF2 i can imagine a similar situation with the scouts on offense... but need something to take down sentry guns... who knows.
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Rebellion
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Post by Rebellion » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:55 pm

At least you TF2 haters got FF to play! :)
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pygmy.shrew
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Post by pygmy.shrew » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:12 pm

I agree with jp slightly. I think the scout does so well in this game because of its versatility now. He can play flag capture, he can even play defense by making quick runs to stop captures on maps like hydro, he has offensive capabilities and dodges well. The demo man is much the same, with a real ability to mix it up, predominantly defence but also has an offensive way about him (bloody scots ;) )

The HWGuy is what he is, there really isn't much else you can do with him, nor should you. The sniper and engineer likewise.

I don't see why the medic should have or be any more than it is, I'm with scotteh that returning to the ways where people chose medics because they were your "everything in one package" class is not a good thing. I also can't see what you could add to a spy (other than to cloak him fully) to better what he does. I think people should be more intelligent with spies, but I also think that servers should all go to FF as soon as possible to maintain the advantage spies are supposed to have.

Soldiers I also have some distaste for, the rocket is too slow, the soldier is too slow, I don't see people going soldier unless they need to clear out a sg, and then they'll go back to being a scout. I'm sure a speed buff for the rocket would make the world of difference, and would also knock the scouts down a peg in the process.

But the pyro is fairly useless with his flamethrower compared to using other classes to do the same job. To me it seems they've put the pyro in "offence" simply to make it an even three piece. You can't return his "chaos" making weapons because that'd make him a support role, but what has he got to attack? I understand the styles, you have scout for quick and weak, soldier for slow and tough, but what's the pyro? He should surely be the one the clears things out but the demo man does that better, and maps being so open means the pyro only has a few points to be truly useful above anything else. He's the class that needs the most urgent recognition for change.

Edit: I do think, however people are overplaying how simplistic this game has been made, the diversity is in the class interaction, and there is plenty of that, a few little changes would sort out any niggles...but ultimately even in games like NS there is a very limited about of viable things you can do, certainly no more tactical options than the different make ups of teams on Tf2

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scotteh
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Post by scotteh » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:52 pm

excellent post shrew, i would actually use the pyro more as a defensive class (particulary the spiral stair case on 2fort, or point C on gravelpit), due to its spy hunting abilities and how they keep mentioning "ambush" since when do attackers ambush? i tend to use the demoman as an offensive class, its great for splitting up medics from their HW's or engi's from their SG's.

after a few days play though i am starting to detest maps like dustbowl when the whole team goes demoman (on the attack) its just incredibly hard to defend against. the grenades are so powerful that a quick spam lowers everyones health to below half and are just fodder for the scouts/HW..

FF would fix this though maybe.
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pygmy.shrew
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Post by pygmy.shrew » Sun Sep 23, 2007 10:27 pm

It's surprising how much FF sorts out the spam, and gives the spy the buff he needs (although it's hand in hand with idiots thinking you're an enemy spy on your own team, go figure). On FF servers where people know their shit, it is much better.

Also, server with 20-22 players are better *hint, hint*

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Thantos
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Post by Thantos » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:18 pm

Just bought tf2 aswell throught steam, downloading now so cya on servers soon! :D
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Mr Banks
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Post by Mr Banks » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:11 pm

I bought orange box too, have just played few hours of TF2, so i can't tell you much other than that it's buttloads of fun :D
That which does not kill you, hurts like hell.

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Post by CheesyPeteza » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:27 pm

Look forward to stabbing you in the back Mr Banks.
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Dari
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Post by Dari » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:51 am

yay Yo-tf2 would be awesome, i love to play tf2 but because of that there is no good server there like you have in NS i play ns more..
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